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War Has No Return

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Old 09-23-2007, 10:00 AM
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Visceral_Intellectual Visceral_Intellectual is offline
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Angry War Has No Return

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Gillespie
"But when you talk about $720 million a day, even people who work on this issue are shocked by the number and shocked by what could have been done with that money. War has no return -- you're not producing a product."
This knucklehead from a peace group in Baltimore said that in an interview for the Washington Post. Well, I have news for you my friend, here are some other annual costs for things that don't "produce a product.":

Operations Southern/Northern Watch: $12 Billion Annually (Active since 1992 after the first Gulf War, and ended in March of 2003 with the liberation of Iraq)
US Troops in Korea: ~$30 Billion
US Troops in Japan:~$20 Billion
US Troops in Europe: ~$40-50 Billion
US Donations to the UN for Peacekeeping around the world: $1 Billion Annually
US Expenditures on Peacekeeping & Humanitarian Missions around the world: $50 Billion+ (depending on the severity of dictators, military coupes, hurricanes, disease, and typhoons in any given year.)
US Border Patrol: $1.7 Billion
US Welfare Services: $1.2 Trillion
AIDS in Africa Research: $50 Billion in 2006

...I could easily add more and go on, but I won't. I think I've gotten the message out.

And the final note is that figure ($720 million per day) is actually $280 Million per day for actual operations and logistics. The other $440 Million is their 'best guess' as to long-term costs for replacing equipment and medical costs for Veterans.

Let's stop spending any money as a nation unless it provides us with a physical product that we can all relish that we've helped to fund. How dare we attempt to spend some of our tax dollars on helping out our fellow man...after all, it doesn't produce anything right?
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:29 AM
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Re: War Has No Return

I do not agree 100% that war has no return - becuase I do think that we should our fellow man. But how can we help others when we cant even help ourselves. I heard that the Pres is thinking of either cutting social security or raising taxes becuase the system is so broken. maybe we could have used the money to fix it.
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:27 AM
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Visceral_Intellectual Visceral_Intellectual is offline
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Re: War Has No Return

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I do not agree 100% that war has no return - becuase I do think that we should our fellow man. But how can we help others when we cant even help ourselves. I heard that the Pres is thinking of either cutting social security or raising taxes becuase the system is so broken. maybe we could have used the money to fix it.
I used to tend to agree with that assumption about war taking money from other needed things. Then I found out that there's "always money"; meaning that war funds and military funds don't actually keep us from doing other projects necessarily.

Social security is a system that is long overdue to either die or be seriously reformed. I have already paid over $30,000 into the system in my life, but I wouldn’t entirely mind if it went away…think about how much I could invest in my own if hundreds of dollars weren’t coming out of my paycheck towards social security. Raising taxes is most likely not the answer the President is looking for and I really doubt he’ll do it. But I guess if he does the Democrats will be happy.

Bureaucracy; not the war, kills our domestic ability to accomplish seemingly simple tasks sometimes. But that’s the curse and blessing of democracy.
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Old 09-25-2007, 04:58 AM
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Re: War Has No Return

War has plenty of returns.

Over 3500 dead soldiers, airmen, sailors, and marines. Not to mention the number of dead US contractors and civilians. How about the thousands of injured and maimed.

Oh... I almost forgot the thousands of dead and injured Iraqi civilains.

How's that for a return?
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:16 AM
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Re: War Has No Return

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Liberal View Post
War has plenty of returns.

Over 3500 dead soldiers, airmen, sailors, and marines. Not to mention the number of dead US contractors and civilians. How about the thousands of injured and maimed.

Oh... I almost forgot the thousands of dead and injured Iraqi civilains.

How's that for a return?
That sounds like the typical talk of the weak and afraid. Afraid to stand up for what is right and what needs to be done. Even with all the civilians killed in this conflict, it is still hundreds of thousands less than Saddam tortured and killed under his regime. And almost every single soldier, sailor, airman, and marine who has died in this fight died fighting for something they held dear. We (in the military) fight for what we signed up for. The defense of freedom and democracy. It may not be as romantic as it sounds, and not everyone signs up under those exact pretenses, but that is in fact what each member or our great military represents once they enlist.

You saying this isn't worth the 3800 who have perished to date, is the exact thing that has almost let the Hitlers and Osamas of the world to accomplish their goals. People in 1935-1938 didn't think it was really worth fighting the Germans even though everyone knew the Germans were up to no good. A great many people in the US thought it wasn't worth fighting communism, and every time we failed to stop the spread of communism, millions died under collectivization and purification of the populace.

It's nice to know where you stand in your value of the worth of all those who have died over here.

I work personally with many Iraqi civilians, and closely with the Iraqi govt. and I can tell you that your sentiment is lost upon deaf ears over here where the real fight is (not on CNN or in the Senate). These people are grateful for what we have given them. Just because they are working out their issues in ways we may have forgotten (US Revolution / US Civil War / US Civil Rights took 200 years to 'work out')...but these people over here haven't forgotten the great gift of CHOICE that we have given them. The choice to be free and live their lives as they choose.

I know it's hard to fathom from whatever cozy place you're in right now...especially with the divisions of LA Times and CNN reporters protecting the Iraqi people with their lives...oh wait...that's right...it's US and Coalition soldiers doing that.

Thanks for your opinion though.
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